1) HW writes about an unfortunate experience in Cleveland, but provides no dimensions of the problem. If the neighbor had four hens in the backyard this might be very relevant, but we suspect this neighbor had too many hens and possibly roosters as well. Obviously too many of any pet species can create problems for neighbors - that's why CLUCK advocates limiting hens to six or less. As far as we know there is no fixed limit on the number of dogs or cats a neighbor can have in the city (although some communities do place ceilings on the total number of pets).
2) RV Most people don’t know how much care chickens need. TRUE. But most people also don’t know how much care a dog, or firstborn child, needs and that doesn’t lead to a municipal prohibition on dogs or children. CLUCK supporters and our local extension office are responding with workshops. In addition there are now dozens of books and an extensive online network offering information and advice. Backyard Chickens has a forum with over 73,000 members and sometimes more than 1,000 are online at one time.
3) RV Strong Coop required TRUE CLUCK wants people to have success with chickens and wants chickens to be safe. The workshops noted above stress sturdy coop design. One argument for making chickens legal is to provide the incentive to spend good money on coop design instead of doing the minimum because the birds might be taken away at any time.
4) RV Feed draws rats TRUE Food draws rats. Food that people leave out for their cats attracts rats, fruit on citrus, avocado and other fruit trees attracts rats, and food scattered from bird feeders attracts rats, but we don’t prohibit outdoor feeding of four-legged pets, growing fruit trees or stocking bird feeders. The proposed code requires people to keep chicken food in secure containers and that is only common sense. Unlike many residents, chicken keepers are likely to to vigilant about rats and other scrounging omnivores.
5)RV Loose chickens could cause squabbles PARTIALLY TRUE Chickens, like dogs, cats and most other pets other than fish, can occasionally "get out" and leave the owner's premises. If there is pre-existing tension between neighbors, we agree that a loose pet can trigger a border skirmish incident. But lost dog and cat signs are common decorations on phone poles in the city and lost pets frequently result in neighbors collaborating to locate, catch and return the wayward animal. Such good neighbor initiatives build, rather than weaken, neighbor relations.
6) RV Not pleasant odor SUBJECTIVE? Dry chickens don't really have much of a discernable odor, just as many dry dogs don't smell too much.
7)RV Don’t know how the city "fathers" can consider chickens RHETORICAL The city commissioners directed staff to work on this because an organized group of responsible residents presented a reasonable case that they should. That would seem to be an obligation of a government.
8)RV Eggs are $1.50 a dozen FALSE Eggs are not being sold at a fixed cost of $1.50 a dozen. Some chain pharmacies frequently advertise 99¢/dozen eggs while Whole Foods would be happy to sell you some at prices approaching $5.00 a dozen. People who want chickens for their eggs don't simply want eggs, they want to know both what went into their eggs and how the chickens that produced those eggs were kept. See a recent Herald Tribune Article regarding egg safety and bungled federal oversight.
9)RV Chickens are a Fad QUESTIONABLE See for more on the fad argument see Herald Tribune Covers City Planning Board on Chickens
10)MC Animals should not be caged OPINION This is a personal opinion to which the writer is entitled. Since virtually every terrestrial pet is caged, crated, or kenneled at some point, we might infer that this individual does not believe in the keeping of pets.
11)MC Chickens are farm animals QUESTIONABLE “farm animal” has no technical meaning. Many, if not most, farms have dogs and cats. Fish, and ostriches, are farmed, but most would not consider them farm animals. Dogs are raised in deplorable “puppy mills” which could be considered dog farms. It is not clear how labeling or stereotyping an animal aids in the discussion of whether it might be an appropriate pet.
12) MC What about a hurricane? VALID CONCERN City Staff and CLUCK are advocating movable coops that can be relocated to a garage or other safe spot during tropical storms. This is a provision specifically designed for our region.
13) MC Odor on humid day QUESTIONABLE We are talking about six or fewer birds. Four laying hens should produce somewhere in the vicinity of one pound (total) of manure a day. That's 75% water, so we are talking about 4 ounces of dried waste. The quarter pound of waste that each chicken produces might be compared with data from the Four Mile watershed in Northern Virginia where dogs are estimated to contribute 5,000 pounds of feces a day, or an average of .438 pounds each per day. CLUCK is not denying that large scale application of chicken manure does not have a discernible objectionable odor, but rather that small amounts in the coop (in bedding) and outdoors will not be noticeable. And CLUCK suggests those offended by chicken waste conduct their own thought experiment: if you had to step in an equal amount of chicken or dog waste, which would you choose?
14) MC Impossible to enforce not selling eggs? TRUE As a practical matter, it is probably impossible to prevent the sale of eggs. But four to six hens are unlikely to ever produce enough eggs for sale and advertising can be prevented.
15) MC Can people come pick up eggs? PRESUMABLY YES. But four or six hens are not going to produce enough eggs to create any noticeable change in traffic to a residential home. See answer above.
16) MC College graduates said to be moving away because we do not allow chickens. Also said about noise ordinance MIXED Young people leave Sarasota for many complex reasons. It is unlikely anyone has left solely because they could not have chickens. But you don’t need to talk to many young professionals to realize that outdoor music, community gardens, backyard hens, bicycle support, and other issues are important to them and some young professionals that leave Sarasota do cite the City's positions on amenities such as these as contributing factors.
17) MC Real estate disclosure FALSE While owners are required to disclose defects in their property that they are aware of, as far as CLUCK knows there is no requirement to disclose any information about neighboring properties.
18 )MC (Won't this lead to) another type of animal? LIKELY FALSE Using this domino theory logic, dogs should not have been allowed because they would lead to cats and cats should not have been allowed because they would lead to chickens. Dogs haven't led to wolves, and cats haven't led to cheetahs. The fact is chickens have been allowed in the City for 80% of the city’s history. No other organized group is advocating for any other animal, so the likelihood that chickens are some sort of "gateway drug" for harder, more serious pet addictions is a stretch.
19) MC What about property rights? AMBIGUOUS It is not clear what this refers to do. People who would like to have pet hens have property rights as well. Efforts to require people to have neighbors approve actions on their own property has a certain un-American ring to it. Government should not be creating a new bureaucracy mediating relations between neighbors. Do you want your neighbors having to approve changes to your yard? Vetoing what pets you can have?
20) MC Where does it stop? RHETORICAL QUESTION No one can predict the future. Who knew we'd have outdoor dining downtown, roundabouts, a return of cisterns, and teenagers wandering about in the streets in order to have a "private" cell phone conversation? See also concern 18.
21) PS No budget for code enforcement or staff MARGINALLY TRUE Staff reductions and increased code enforcement demands resulting from foreclosures and abandoned homes have stretched resources, but there still is a budget and they do now deal with chicken complaints. We have seen no data to suggest that code enforcement actions will increase as a result of re-legalization. Enforcement calls may actually decrease or stay the same. But if the ability to enforce code and pet rules is to be a pre-requisite for having pets, we’ll have to get rid of most of the dogs and cats in the City since existing rules regarding these pets are not being enforced.
22) HB Sex discrimination against roosters – both sexes happy with roosters. It is hard to tell if this is a lighthearted tongue-in-cheek commentary or a serious claim. If it is serious, it is FALSE. Backyard Poultry magazine contains one or more ads for what are euphemistically called “chicken saddles”. One brand is called “HenSaver”. A chicken saddle, “is a device you put on your hens to protect their backs from roosters during mating. When roosters mate with hens, the hens often sustain feather loss and cuts and gashes on their backs and shoulders that can lead to infection, picking, cannibalism and death.” With a limit of just a few hens, adding a rooster would create an abusive situation. If you Google hen rooster ratio, you'll see most sources suggest hens in the double digits for each rooster. Advocating equal numbers would not make hens happy.
23) HB Why debate chickens while our country is at war? Wartime has traditionally been a time the government encourages people to have chickens. See this poster from World War I when keeping backyard hens was a patriotic duty.
The following comments were in response to from letters a week earlier, Dec. 7.
The following comments were in response to from letters a week earlier, Dec. 7.
24) CK How does keeping chickens make Sarasota more attractive to a younger, hipper crowd? We guess because younger hipper people may be more interested in sustainability, and knowing where their food comes from. This was sworn testimony at a public meeting – maybe CK should respect the views of young people rather than demeaning and mocking them.
25) CK How can they find the time? According to the federal government, they take “only a few minutes a day.”
26) CK Want chickens? Get a farm! Really? And if you want grapefruit you have to buy a grove? And if you want tomatoes, you have to get another farm? If you want to practice putting, you need to buy a golf course? Again, according to the federal government: “Even the smallest backyard has room for a flock large enough to supply the house with eggs.”
27) MM Enforcement would cost money we don’t have There has been no testimony to indicate why enforcement calls should increase over the 3.5 calls per year we’ve been averaging.
28) MM no means of enforcement Not true. We have both existing staff and penalties.
29) MM Chickens are noisy. Chickens do make noise, but with the exception of fish and some herps, so do most pets. Our analysis suggests that songbirds in your yard will be louder than neighbor’s chickens.
30) MM Chickens attract predators. Yup, and unlike most people that feed birds, or put food out for the cat chicken keepers will do something about rats. A handful of chickens will not increase the number of predators, since they would provide so little food. See Question 41.
31) MM Manure odor. Actually a dog that weighs the same as six chickens produces more feces. We can argue about the relative odors, but there is no reason why anyone would smell chicken manure on an adjoining property and we’re advocating language to codify that.
32) MM Most appropriate on farms or large lots Don’t tell New York, Seattle, Houston, San Francisco or dozens of other major US cities. Our country is in transition and the homey memories of illustrations of the farmstead with the pigs and sheep, and goats, and chickens and geese, and cows, etc. have been largely replaced with industrial facilities. That’s a large part of why people are interested in their own hens, a more humane life, more control over what they eat.
33) MM Surrounded by 17 dogs This indirectly makes the case for chickens. It’s hard to avoid concluding MM wouldn’t be better off surrounded by 17 chickens than 17 dogs “whose owners are not always responsible about curtailing barking or picking up feces.”
34) EA Chickens smell Not perceptibly. And I’d rather drive to Gainesville with a wet hen in the car than a wet dog.
35) EA Feces are toxic Not sure what this means exactly, I hope not an implication that other pet feces are non-toxic. Humans are wise to avoid contact with all feces.
36) EA Feces can carry disease The facts are there are much greater threats to human health from dog and cat feces than chickens.
37) EA Not fun to take care of Not sure what pets are actually “fun” to take care of (maybe sea monkeys?) – this is a subjective opinion.
38) EA Look at Key West! Key West is the poster child for what we are trying to avoid. Key West let a situation get out of hand. And its not residents who have their allowable four chickens that are the problem.
The problem is the so-called ‘gypsy chickens’ of Key West that are a feral, wild population – just like feral cats or iguanas or Muscovy ducks that no one takes care of, but which somehow reproduce and survive. It doesn’t help that some tourists feed them and consider them part of Key West’s quirky charm.
Right now there is a $50 fine for having chickens in Sarasota, which is a strong disincentive for being responsible or claiming ownership. “Oh, THOSE chickens. Never saw them before. No idea who they might belong to.”
If we have a reasonable, controlled program that allows people to have a few hens legally then the odds are better of avoiding a situation where people get chickens and release them, claiming “Who me? The’re not mine”.
39) RV This letter was printed twice, once on Dec. 7 and once on the 13th. This answer is the same as answer 2 in the previous response to letters. Most people don’t know how much care chickens need. TRUE. But most people also don’t know how much care a dog, or firstborn child, needs and that doesn’t lead to a municipal prohibition on dogs or children. CLUCK supporters and our local extension office are responding with workshops. In addition there are now dozens of books and an extensive online network offering information and advice. Backyard Chickens has a forum with over 73,000 members and sometimes more than 1,000 are online at one time.
40) This letter was printed twice, once on Dec. 7 and once on the 13th. This answer is the same as answer 3 in the previous response to letters. RV Strong Coop required TRUE CLUCK wants people to have success with chickens and wants chickens to be safe. The workshops noted above stress sturdy coop design. One argument for making chickens legal is to provide the incentive to spend good money on coop design instead of doing the minimum because the birds might be taken away at any time.
41) RV This letter was printed twice, once on Dec. 7 and once on the 13th. This answer is the same as answer 4 in the previous response to letters. Feed draws rats TRUE Food draws rats. Food that people leave out for their cats attracts rats, fruit on citrus, avocado and other fruit trees attracts rats, and food scattered from bird feeders attracts rats, but we don’t prohibit outdoor feeding of four-legged pets, growing fruit trees or stocking bird feeders. The proposed code requires people to keep chicken food in secure containers and that is only common sense. Unlike many residents, chicken keepers are likely to to vigilant about rats and other scrounging omnivores.
42)RV This letter was printed twice, once on Dec. 7 and once on the 13th. This answer is the same as answer 5 in the previous response to letters. Loose chickens could cause squabbles PARTIALLY TRUE Chickens, like dogs, cats and most other pets other than fish, can occasionally "get out" and leave the owner's premises. If there is pre-existing tension between neighbors, we agree that a loose pet can trigger a border skirmish incident. But lost dog and cat signs are common decorations on phone poles in the city and lost pets frequently result in neighbors collaborating to locate, catch and return the wayward animal. Such good neighbor initiatives build, rather than weaken, neighbor relations.
43) RV This letter was printed twice, once on Dec. 7 and once on the 13th. This answer is the same as answer 6 in the previous response to letters. Not pleasant odor SUBJECTIVE? Dry chickens don't really have much of a discernable odor, just as many dry dogs don't smell too much.
44)RV This letter was printed twice, once on Dec. 7 and once on the 13th. This answer is the same as answer 7 in the previous response to letters. Don’t know how the city "fathers" can consider chickens RHETORICAL The city commissioners directed staff to work on this because an organized group of responsible residents presented a reasonable case that they should. That would seem to be an obligation of a government.
45)RV This letter was printed twice, once on Dec. 7 and once on the 13th. This answer is the same as answer 8 in the previous response to letters. Eggs are $1.50 a dozen FALSE Eggs are not being sold at a fixed cost of $1.50 a dozen. Some chain pharmacies frequently advertise 99¢/dozen eggs while Whole Foods would be happy to sell you some at prices approaching $5.00 a dozen. People who want chickens for their eggs don't simply want eggs, they want to know both what went into their eggs and how the chickens that produced those eggs were kept. See a recent Herald Tribune Article regarding egg safety and bungled federal oversight.
45)RV Chickens are a Fad QUESTIONABLE See for more on the fad argument see Herald Tribune Covers City Planning Board on Chickens
One more critical letter appeared on January 1, which prompted this response.
No comments:
Post a Comment